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re: failure as a popular poet  mikebauer  27 Jan 07 9:04PM Post Reply

i have trouble with bukowski, cause he came after my time. ginsberg is the universal disappointment, for me: the man who did so much to take words out of poetry. keroauc, i don't know so well. do you like the musical poets, like corso?

> apparently you like what I write because you have favorited one of my
> poems and made favorable comments on several more.
>
> my favorite poet is bukowski, then keroauc not so mich ginsberg

re: failure as a popular poet  mikebauer  27 Jan 07 10:07PM Post Reply

are there any poets bothering with this thread? do any of you call yourself "poet", or do you just write poetry? do you write it cause you dig it, like i do, or do you write it to make the world better?

re: failure as a popular poet  JerryReed  27 Jan 07 10:51PM Post Reply

> there are three whitish cotton smudges on a vase across from me. the
> vase is in three sections, and each section curves inward; a tall
> vase, taking its form from bamboo.
>
> the three smudges are reflections from the open window. are they part
> of the vase?
>
> illustrations:
>
> my failure as a poet: hearing sounds like i do, and thinking others
> hear them that kinetically too.
>
> knowing the music i know, and the poems.
>
> not writing about important things: insult and responsibility.
>
> my organic style, not letting the reader out of it once he's started
> reading it.
>
> each year, for a hundred years, twelve more readers, a crowd of fans,
> each calling 12 friends. hundreds, thousands, adding up; how many till
> i become another name in mindless norton's? -- i'm just another name
> to the class already.
>
> question:
>
> how must i change myself, before it's too late? what should i do to
> be a real poet?
You can change by growing up. You are an imature child. Grow up, Mr. Bauer. Try being a little quieter.

re: failure as a popular poet  mikebauer  27 Jan 07 11:07PM Post Reply

did you want your date chat room back for the evening? -- did you need scented candles, sir, or will the musk of your arm pits be sufficient?



> > there are three whitish cotton smudges on a vase across from me. the
> > vase is in three sections, and each section curves inward; a tall
> > vase, taking its form from bamboo.
> >
> > the three smudges are reflections from the open window. are they
> part
> > of the vase?
> >
> > illustrations:
> >
> > my failure as a poet: hearing sounds like i do, and thinking others
> > hear them that kinetically too.
> >
> > knowing the music i know, and the poems.
> >
> > not writing about important things: insult and responsibility.
> >
> > my organic style, not letting the reader out of it once he's
> started
> > reading it.
> >
> > each year, for a hundred years, twelve more readers, a crowd of
> fans,
> > each calling 12 friends. hundreds, thousands, adding up; how many
> till
> > i become another name in mindless norton's? -- i'm just another
> name
> > to the class already.
> >
> > question:
> >
> > how must i change myself, before it's too late? what should i do to
> > be a real poet?
> You can change by growing up. You are an imature child. Grow up, Mr.
> Bauer. Try being a little quieter.

re: failure as a popular poet  unknown  28 Jan 07 7:19AM Post Reply

re: failure as a popular poet

> there are three whitish cotton smudges on a vase across from me. the
> vase is in three sections, and each section curves inward; a tall
> vase, taking its form from bamboo.

My failure as a creative artist is that I could paint the above picture a dozen different ways, with a dozen different styles, using a dozen different mediums. I could write a fictional or non-fictional assay on your words above that could be witty, entertaining, knowledgeable, and/or loaded down with facts and figures. I could begin a novel from several different perspectives regarding those lines. I could write a critique about them, or finish a poem based on your words. I could write a poem from scratch because of the thoughts that your words evoke within me. I could do each of these things and I could do them in an excellent fashion, 99% of university professor’s word grade them an A, I have no doubt in this because of past experience. My working life has had similar results, I always do excellent work. There is little need for anyone to watch over me, because I always far exceed expectations.

re: failure as a popular poet

My taskmaster is myself which lashes me with many stripes continually. Talent alone is not enough nor is being able to complete a task. One has to want to do so. The opposite of failure is success. Do you want to have success? Do you want to give humanity a part of you? Do you want to have them misinterpret your words, to know you so well that they may read within the lines more than you have written? Are you writing for yourself or others? I submit that we ourselves are part of the others, because our inner being learns from our creative side. We then write for the world and ourselves. We are writing for future generations, and if one believes, one may be writing to the creator of the universe.

My problem, and I am being so honest now that it hurts, is that I have a hard time liking myself, others, and the Supreme Being. I have much hatred within myself directed at myself, others, and God. Do I really want to help humanity? Do I really want to help those who have hurt me so badly that at times I wish I had never been born? Why? Why should I help this world that has caused me so much pain? Why should I use my talent that God has given me when he makes me so angry sometimes that I loath him?

Other times I feel happy and loving towards the world and the universe and then the talent, motivation, and the physical work kicks in and I can love myself, others, and God. Then is the time that I want to create, to share. The key to being a popular poet is to love yourself, and then to love others. Without love we might have the talent and the ability but little desire to give. Any form of creativity including poetry, especially poetry, must have the desire to communicate something new to others. My failure is not caring enough about others most of the time to want to share a part of me, especially when sharing, as I am now, opens myself to criticism by others.  

re: failure as a popular poet  mikebauer  28 Jan 07 11:05AM Post Reply

"... But, once again, the basis of everything is the common people; the spectators join in the play and the crowd becomes part of the theatre. During the daytime, squares, canals, gondolas and palazzi are full of life as the buyer and the seller, the begger and the boatman, the housewife and the lawyer offer something for sale, sing and gamble, shout and swear. In the evening these same people go to the theatre to behold their actual life, presented with greater economy as make-believe interwoven with fairy stories and removed from reality by masks, yet, in its character, the life they know. They are delighted, like children, shouting, clapping and generally making a din."

[Goethe, "Italian Journey". auden's one of the translators.]

re: failure as a popular poet  mikebauer  28 Jan 07 12:16PM Post Reply

ah! "Any artist can create something genuine if he is given a genuine task." -- very much Goethe, but, still... some writers always have a genuine task: find themselves, declare their identities, weep for their obscurity and weakness in not being able to promote themselves above others -- let's say. and, by pointing to a wrong, and identifying themselves with that wrong ( "i see the weeping mothers..."), establish themselves as valid, as socially active and articulate. their task is self-defined, and that's why their poetry is so boring to even themselves. libraries are full of books of important poetry by important poets. so are used bookstores and the re-pulping yards of paper mills.

Goethe could never have conceived of a Lenin, and Lenin's dictates on what a poem should write about. but Goethe was a "prude", after all, and couldn't imagine writing about "diks", though he wrote about fucking. noble mind, and the people wanting us to write about important and mature things... their failed marrages and alcholism, for instance... noble minds. i can't yet see "popular" and, "for the masses" as necessary, yet. maybe "necesary and popular is writing about your grandchildren reading che. i feel i must only write when i'm supposed to write.

re: failure as a popular poet  CervusWright  28 Jan 07 7:06PM Post Reply

> re: failure as a popular poet
>
> > there are three whitish cotton smudges on a vase across from me. the
> > vase is in three sections, and each section curves inward; a tall
> > vase, taking its form from bamboo.
>
> My failure as a creative artist is that I could paint the above
> picture a dozen different ways, with a dozen different styles, using a
> dozen different mediums. I could write a fictional or non-fictional
> assay on your words above that could be witty, entertaining,
> knowledgeable, and/or loaded down with facts and figures. I could
> begin a novel from several different perspectives regarding those
> lines. I could write a critique about them, or finish a poem based on
> your words. I could write a poem from scratch because of the thoughts
> that your words evoke within me. I could do each of these things and I
> could do them in an excellent fashion, 99% of university professor’s
> word grade them an A, I have no doubt in this because of past
> experience. My working life has had similar results, I always do
> excellent work. There is little need for anyone to watch over me,
> because I always far exceed expectations.
>
> re: failure as a popular poet
>
> My taskmaster is myself which lashes me with many stripes continually.
> Talent alone is not enough nor is being able to complete a task. One
> has to want to do so. The opposite of failure is success. Do you want
> to have success? Do you want to give humanity a part of you? Do you
> want to have them misinterpret your words, to know you so well that
> they may read within the lines more than you have written? Are you
> writing for yourself or others? I submit that we ourselves are part of
> the others, because our inner being learns from our creative side. We
> then write for the world and ourselves. We are writing for future
> generations, and if one believes, one may be writing to the creator of
> the universe.
>
> My problem, and I am being so honest now that it hurts, is that I have
> a hard time liking myself, others, and the Supreme Being. I have much
> hatred within myself directed at myself, others, and God. Do I really
> want to help humanity? Do I really want to help those who have hurt me
> so badly that at times I wish I had never been born? Why? Why should I
> help this world that has caused me so much pain? Why should I use my
> talent that God has given me when he makes me so angry sometimes that
> I loath him?
>
> Other times I feel happy and loving towards the world and the universe
> and then the talent, motivation, and the physical work kicks in and I
> can love myself, others, and God. Then is the time that I want to
> create, to share. The key to being a popular poet is to love yourself,
> and then to love others. Without love we might have the talent and the
> ability but little desire to give. Any form of creativity including
> poetry, especially poetry, must have the desire to communicate
> something new to others. My failure is not caring enough about others
> most of the time to want to share a part of me, especially when
> sharing, as I am now, opens myself to criticism by others.

I really appreciate the honesty in this post.  Unknown or not, it was brave to share this thinking.  Thank you.  There was value in it for me.

re: failure as a popular poet  unknown  29 Jan 07 2:47AM Post Reply

CervusWright,

I'm glad it was of value to you, thanks.

re: failure as a popular poet  Isabelle5  29 Jan 07 4:37PM Post Reply

What does the vase have to do with your ability as a poet?  You don't have to  know if the reflections are part of the vase, you need to know if you wish to write about them as part of the vase.

Your perception is what counts, not the reality of the vase.  Why do you complicate things so?  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar!

If you must write poetry, you are a poet.  If you write poetry, even if no one else reads it, you are a poet.  If you never write a word down but you write in your head, you are a poet.

If you think you are a poet, who cares what anyone else thinks you are or are not?

Why do you complicate all the issues?  Simplify before your life is over.

Imc

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