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re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  mikebauer  23 Jan 07 11:17PM Post Reply

that's it, isn't it? and only that? people think that because they can look for reflex they can also look for "belief.

> belief is by definition something that is accepted.

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  unknown  24 Jan 07 12:09AM Post Reply

I read the thread, from the beginning, and I think we are all Gods.  Belief, to me, is merely manifestation, or creation.  That wacky socialist, Jesus, said it best when he said: As you sow, so shall ye reap; Ask and you shall receive; and heaps more, but I'm not a christian so I can't quote the enlightened dude properly.

I think the time is coming where people will have to embrace their potential, own their magic, and start to consciously create their days and their worlds.  God/Higher Power/Infinant Radient Is/the Eagle/Allah has shown us heaven already, we just need to grow up now, reclaim our adulthood and our wisdom, and open the door by ourselves, rather than waiting for 'daddy', 'He', or a 'big brother' type (Jesus) to do it for us.  We aren't children anymore, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE.

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  unknown  24 Jan 07 3:31AM Post Reply

Inutile is on the right track, belief boils down to faith in the absense of hard facts - effectively trust.

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  mr_e  24 Jan 07 7:51AM Post Reply

shut up everyone and just appreciate this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuqPh2V_3bk

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  tillmorgan  24 Jan 07 9:32AM Post Reply

May I just say that I greatly enjoyed reading this thread and that I've recorded some of mikebauer's words because they made so much sense up and down my spine.
-till

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  Isabelle5  24 Jan 07 12:00PM Post Reply

Isn't this why we love to watch magicians?  We have to suspend what we believe and our eyes deceive us.   Nothing is real, everything in life is an illusion, based on faulty perception of body and mind (the mind is merely a chemical reaction chamber).  We think the table is firm but it's actually made of spaces, our bodies are not the solid objects we think and if we could suspend many of our beliefs, we could do so much more.  It's our own beliefs that do limit us, while at the same time, they make us yearn for more than we can see and touch.

Bologna, what do you believe in?  Even you must have something you trust.  

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  mikebauer  24 Jan 07 1:51PM Post Reply

if the mind is a reaction chamber, then what's its product? "thougth"? a table isn't made of spaces, any more than a poem is made of letters, and yet the letters combine into "poem stuff" and the atoms combine to molecules. if our coffee cup isn't going to fall throught the holes, then are there really "holes" in the table? and who told us so? wasn't it a special proceedure, "looking at tiny things", which gave rise to the metaphor of "spaces"? and modern physics isn't even allowing for boundarys, much less vast gulfs on an atomic level: the atoms are fatter now, then they were when we learnt of them in sixth grade.

the mind is a chemical blob, but the mind's blobs connect to each other in unique ways, unique for each person: some of us see more, and some of us react more, and some have more holes in their thinking, allowing more confusion.

> Isn't this why we love to watch magicians?  We have to suspend what
> we believe and our eyes deceive us.   Nothing is real, everything in
> life is an illusion, based on faulty perception of body and mind (the
> mind is merely a chemical reaction chamber).  We think the table is
> firm but it's actually made of spaces, our bodies are not the solid
> objects we think and if we could suspend many of our beliefs, we could
> do so much more.  It's our own beliefs that do limit us, while at the
> same time, they make us yearn for more than we can see and touch.
>
> Bologna, what do you believe in?  Even you must have something you
> trust.  

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  Isabelle5  24 Jan 07 2:09PM Post Reply

Confusion is also a figment of someone's imagination.  Schizophrenics hear voices that no one else does and they respond as if they were real.  Are they less real because no one else can hear them?

Of coure the chemicals in the brain connect to form thoughts that guide most of us through our days.  We don't have to think about much of what we do, thankfully.

We each bring a unique perspective to life, that's the interesting thing about being alive.  A table is made more of space than molecules.  Their energy, both attractive and repellant, keeps them in the form we call wood or plastic or whatever it is.  

I wonder about those who believe their "figments" are more real and thus seemingly more valuable than someone else's.  

Imc

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  mikebauer  24 Jan 07 2:11PM Post Reply

well, here's a chiller... maybe it's better to read and keep someone's thoughts like isabelle's, because what she says is so off the wall and confused conceptually? -- "common sense"  kinds of "everyone knows that..." statements that seem to mean so much, but depend on our already agreeing with basic premises -- "the world is too big, mind is too small" -- such statements make us re-think, radically, about concepts and how we use language, because they just don't make as much sense as they're supposed too -- whereas mine just reorient a direction... i "say stuff about stuff being talked about" to get talkers to be creative so that it's possible to they may say something that really helps the dialog -- what i say should be heard as just one more "off the wall and confused" statement too. what i say is moot... i'm just a "village explainer", person whom, as Gertude Stein said about ezra pound, is "fine to listen to, if you're a village". it's the walk through the village itself that shows us what's worth talking about.

dismal cheers.

> May I just say that I greatly enjoyed reading this thread and that
> I've recorded some of mikebauer's words because they made so much
> sense up and down my spine.
> -till

re: Let's understand the problem with belief.  unknown  24 Jan 07 2:26PM Post Reply

that was quite a public wank mike.

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