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Christianity is but the insanity of mankind  netskyIam  4 Feb 07 8:47PM Post Reply

At the second entry of page 13 is a cutting lampoon, anti-Christian.
Please refer to it again, gentle True Christians.

Some of you reading this thread are biblical literalists.

As a homosexual, your bible commands you to stone me and my kind to death.

I will now (figuratively) point to a pile of sharp-edged rocks laying in yonder ditch.
I will stand in place right here.

Who will cast the first stone?  I will not resist.
Who among you refuses to stone the abominable human who writes these words?
For if you won't stone me to a bloody pulp, God can't send me to hell.
But if you don't stone me to death, God says he will send YOU to hell, for eternal torture for your failure to concrete his very definite wishes.


Onward Christian Soldiers...


I'm here.   I will die for you.

re: Christianity is but the vanity of man.  unknown  5 Feb 07 9:04AM Post Reply

"I would rather see that name of the user. Nor did I say that you should make a username just for this argument…that of course, as you said, would be silly."
-Henry


Then I shall repeat it:
I do not have a username, nor will I create one for this discussion when I do not even write poetry,
Should you crave a name to call me by; why not call me heathen? :)
I'll sign with that then, so there will be no confusion as to who says what.




"Matthew 15:4 Back in the day there was the Corban vow which meant, that instead of using money to support your elderly parents, you could instead give the money to the church. But, in doing so, the people went against the rule to care for his or her parents. The reason Jesus brought up…”and those who don’t honor their mother or father should surely die,” is because he was bringing up a rule of God that the Pharisees broke when following the Corban vow they’d concocted.  The Pharisees claimed they followed the rules of God, but they in fact did not."
-Henry

That's fine and dandy, but you do not seem to really know the context of the verse:

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 15:4-9

As you can see in 15:9; if you do not follow the commandments, you worship in vain.
Thus you MUST destroy rebellious children, just like you MUST destroy homosexuals.

To evolve further on this, lets look at a few more verses, all NT:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
But he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

^ As plainly shown here, simply bowing to Jesus won't do you any good, just like Matthew 15:9 says.
You MUST follow the commandments, and the commandments are the Mosaic law, found in the OT.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:13

^ The DOERS of the law are justified. Knowledge of the law, or knowledge of Jesus;
It is useless if you do not follow the commandments.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:46




"There are obvious problems with the logic in the last statement. You can’t assume that because I haven’t read all the other scriptures, that I ignore Jesus completely. I have read many…but not all yet. I am still younger than 21…give me time."
-Henry


No, but I can draw the conclusion that you do not really KNOW what Jesus teaches if you haven't properly read the scriptures.
If you don't really know what he teaches; saying you do follow his teachings is a bold statement.

Jesus denies that he is here to bring peace nor remove the Mosaic law:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:17-18

^ Here he, in plain text, proclaims that the law will remain as the world remains.
The world still remains = The law still remains. As the world pass, the law will pass.
The world has passed in Revelation chapter 21..

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
And there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:1

And the law with it:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:
For the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:4

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 21:6

^ "It is done" (ie fulfilled.)



And here, Jesus denies that he has come to bring peace..

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34

^ This has two meanings, First; Jesus will cause families to fall apart, as shown in the following verses.
Second, It also talks about how we will destroy every unbeliever/"sinner" at Armageddon.. See below:

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
And all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 19:21

^ Is this really a nice thing to do?
Yes, someone named "John" wrote Revelation and it isn't Jesus speaking, but Jesus gives his own version below in Matthew 13:41-42.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42

So your "Mr. Peaceful of wonderful talk" will slay people with and feed them to the birds of the sky, and he also will throw people alive in a burning furnace.. (That is, hell.)
He also displays some sectarian tendencies, you must love him more than your entire family..
He demands it, and that's not a very nice thing to do!

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me:
And he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:37


There you have it, you may not know the scriptures.. But I do.
So maybe you should listen and just CONSIDER that what your feelgood pastor has told you isn't what Jesus preached?
I wouldn't try to teach you about poetry, I humbly submit to the fact that you know much more about it than I do.
So if you're going to try and refute me about what Jesus taught.. I would like chapter and verse, not what you or anyone else only think he taught.




"if you don’t follow the teachings of Jesus (to love your neighbor, be charitable, give up your possessions"
-Henry


...And kill rebellious children, homosexuals, witches, and persecute non-believers..




"And you don’t have to follow traditions either…that was a big emphasis here…just his moral teachings."
-Henry


Jesus stress that you must follow "God's commandments" and the "law".
THAT is his moral teachings, those you've previously cited are found in the OT.
Jesus doesn't really teach much that's new, a few things, but that's it.

In no way does he encourage anyone to break with the commandments. (And I am not talking about 10 here, but all of them.)


Kind regards,
This hellbound heathen.

re: Christianity is but the vanity of man.  Mor  5 Feb 07 3:22PM Post Reply

“Christianity is but the vanity of man “

I  could cry, tears of tomorrow
where day  laid fine, its self rest,
reckoning adds such to a sorrow
our lives, seeming bent to its test.

Anamorphosis  stood at an altar
heard abderian beats it appressed
such, was  powers of  past’s  palter
our Celtic true Teutonic’s attest.

Sadly my moment was as fetcher
wit was all the fetch it possessed.
Sulphurs own lamp ever burning
Babel’s bright light, it so blessed.

Plough's down-shares were turning
yesterday’s turfs and it years.
spiked harrows  bade returning
to grub  life’s roots, from its fears.

Abater’s curvet  and promises pasture
stamps out the old, and firms for the news.
For the foot  that treads, is life by a nature
souls blessed being; it beckons eschews.

For such is the abb-wools of that we make spence
and give to the weavers the joy of word’s sense.
For man will fight battles and ne’er co exist
on language, its meaning; and that it so missed.

For read times of its reasoning,
stands man, but a mind so appalled
That when judgement comes a calling,
we are but truly deaf, as those called .


Mor.

re: Christianity is but the vanity of man.  unknown  5 Feb 07 11:59PM Post Reply

> (long list of bad things snipped)...
> > > Oh yes--plague.  I forgot bubonic plague.  It was once a serious
> > > problem.  Smallpox too.  Works of man, god or satan?
>
> Steven replied again to say that of all the natural disasters and
> natural afflictions besetting man and all of life on earth:
>
> > Neither God nor Satan created them, I believe it was mankind.

What I said above is true. If Adam and Eve (real historical people) had not sinned they would still be alive for eternity, the world would have remained perfect and God would have continued to walk in the Garden of Eden with them on the cool of he morn.

> Steven, I'm doubting your powers of reason.   Mankind could not
> create any of those things.    You're saying instead that he -caused
> them-.  OK.

You really should not attack my "powers of reason", how does that solve anything at all? It would bode well for your side if I were a genius rather stupid, if I am stupid then my words have little substance and you are picking on a person of low intelligence. Shame on you.

> So, say that mankind in sin caused all the bad things to come to pass.
> WHO created the plagues?    Only "god".   Your "god".

Cause and effect, cause and effect my good man. The cause is the fall of mankind. The effect is punishment.

> Your failure in logic is profound.  The cause-and-effect here is as
> like crime and punishment:  two entirely different things.

It takes only one rotten apple to spoil the barrel and many more sayings such as this hint at what has happned because Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

> As far as our "being out of harmony" with the planet, yes, global
> warming
> (which is not a "superstition", but a rather certain theory), may be
> our downfall.

Supposition was the word, a typo. It is not a "certain theory", no theory is certain, at best a hypothesis. A poor hypothesis. I don't want to get into global warming right now but it is far from proven.

> Harmony--with  nature?  The bible has given ALL of nature over to
> godly mankind, to do with it as he desires.  All of the living beings
> are subjugants of mankind's wants and need and whims.   According to
> your religion, it's not disharmonious to slay as many of the beasts
> or fish, etc, as we want.  "He" gave them all to us.

No comment.

> New question:  Do you beleive in literal "Creation" as
> "inerrantly" documented in the bible?  If so, fine.  If not, why do
> you think the story of Adam and Eve is literal, either?  Did people
> then really live upwards of a thousand years?  And wot??? No
> hamburgers???   grin, but I do have a point.

I do believe that Adam and Eve were (are) real people. I believe they had many children as the Bible states. I believe that the first generations of people after the fall lived upward of a thousand years. The river of life was available to them before the fall. I don't know what that might be but it gave never ending life. It must have taken several generations before mankind lost all of the power that God placed within the river of life. If mankind's science were advanced far into the future, it would not be out of the question to defeat disease, to defeat aging, and to achieve a type of immortality. God of course would already know everything, so it would be an easy thing for Him. He took that gift away from us so that we would die.

> This discussion is now more like a sideshow with some education value
> only for the very young, or for the very bemused, who like to smile
> over much ado about nothing.

It is much ado about nothing, the fact that you and I are here and that we were created from nothing. It should bring a chill to your soul that we are here in the first place. Our distant ancestors believed in God, felt compelled to keep first the Jewish faith, then the Christian faith alive for many thousands of years. It is because it is important, many have lived and died because of their faith in the one God of the Jews, the promise of the messiah, and then the coming of Jesus Christ, and His resurrection. Now we look towards His coming again.

Steven

re: Christianity is but the vanity of man.  netskyIam  6 Feb 07 12:12AM Post Reply

You're in it as deep as detritus on the floor of the sea.
Let this "discussion" end here for now (I mean, I bow out for tonight at least),
so others may digest your Witnessing.  

"Now we look towards His coming again."

hooboy

re: Christianity is but the vanity of man.  unknown  6 Feb 07 12:31AM Post Reply

> New question:  Do you beleive in literal "Creation" as
> "inerrantly" documented in the bible?  If so, fine.  If not, why do
> you think the story of Adam and Eve is literal, either?  Did people
> then really live upwards of a thousand years?  And wot??? No
> hamburgers???   grin, but I do have a point.

I had forgotten to answer part of this question. First of all I don't believe it make a difference one way or the other how we view creation, the important part is that God created the universe with a plan in mind. An intelligence created the universe, not some random stupidity of nature.

This is just totally my ideas below, and they are probably wrong, but it is good to think on them.

I believe there are many ways to look at things, many perspectives. Einstein felt that there was something missing to the equations of the universe, he wanted to create a Universal Field Theory in which everything could be explained. It has never happened and I believe it never will happen even if Christ does no return in a million years.

The perception of creation is similar to looking at PI, you can carry it out to maybe infinity and there will never be a total answer. I can wear the hat of science and see the eons of time required to create all there is in the universe. We know that we can see outward almost 14 billion miles in every direction. We don't know if the expansion of space has remained constant, gotten faster, or slowed down. It appears though that our star is maybe a third or fouth generation star. A star of our size can burn for billions of years. I look out into the universe and cannot imagine the Earth and all that is in it being created in 6 days, that man was place here in the garden, and that Eve was made from Adams rib.

Looking from the Bible perspective I know that God lives beyond time, He created time, and so it means nothing to Him. The Bible says a day is like a thousand years to Him and at the same time a thousand years is as a day. This saying is really to tell people that God does not have an alarm clock. He can spend an endless amount of time considering Reid, looking at him, thinking about how to win him over, considering perhaps Reid's conversation with so-and-so for a thousand years in our time frame. So I believe it could have been 6 days in our time, yet God could have spent ages doing so. The timeline is the important thing. How He created this before that, and finally people.

In other words I cannot reconcile science and the Bible. I don't think it will ever be possible. God might not play dice with the universe, but I just don't think it adds up, not in the thinking of mankind, it is beyond us and always will be. So if you ask me do I take the Bible literally I will say yes. If you ask me if I believe that the universe looks at science has said it is I will say yes also, because I believe they are both correct ways to see the same thing from different perspectives.

Steve

re: Christianity is but the vanity of man.  unknown  6 Feb 07 12:34AM Post Reply

should be "14 billion light-years" above - oops

Steven

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