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re: The Bible and Homosexuality nightengale 7 Jan 07 9:06PM |
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ha, some do but they shouldn't. Does that mean you should judge us all by other's actions?
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality unknown 7 Jan 07 11:36PM |
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> ha, some do but they shouldn't. Does that mean you should judge us
> all by other's actions?
But nightengale, if you believe homosexuality to be a 'sin', isn't that a judgement?
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality mikebauer 7 Jan 07 11:46PM |
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a judgement is different from a determination. and, even as a determination is a recognition, so a judgement is simply an appreciation, not a action.
> > ha, some do but they shouldn't. Does that mean you should judge us
> > all by other's actions?
>
> But nightengale, if you believe homosexuality to be a 'sin', isn't
> that a judgement?
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality ka 8 Jan 07 2:26AM |
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you think homosexuality is a sin. YOU think.
"Thou shalt have no other God before me."
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Just a couple of commandments. So far as I can read in any scripture handed down by God himself or Jesus the Son, not one of them tells us whom we can or cannot have sex with. That was men, baby. We holier than thou shits who try to tell other people how to think, or sit in judgement, or force folks to behave in certain ways.
Jesus loved Hester though she was a prostitute and slept with men and women, and hated holy men. God loved us all, as long as we loved him. That was all I read. DOn't know about you bible-beaters, but Jesus said (according to Matt's scripture):
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged , and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you . Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye ? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye...
Read above - "interpret" his word and you take His name in vain. You misuse his intention. YOU think homosexuality a sin? You bought into Roman bible rewrites (Constantine was disgusted by the behaviour of some of the Caesars.) YOU think? What right have YOU to think? To Judge? Your own God tells you this is one of the 10 worst sins. Do you guess who's gay? Do you think about it? Gossip with your friends? You shall not bear false witness!
Bible thumpers, bah. You make me tired. Always waving scripture around like it's some sort of prize or justification for whatever you choose to think. You hypocrite, first take the plank from your own eye.
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality mikebauer 8 Jan 07 2:48AM |
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so then, if the judgement is only an aesthetic determination, the actual meaning of a judgement is in the mind of the judge. it doesn't mean anything to anyone else, except anecdotally, as a "condemnation" -- and i think that's the missing word here. she hasn't condemned anyone, she's simply made an observation.
she can think anything she wants. that's what a mind is for.
> you think homosexuality is a sin. YOU think.
>
> "Thou shalt have no other God before me."
>
> You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for
> the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
>
> You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
>
> You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of
> anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or
> that is in the water under the earth.
>
> Just a couple of commandments. So far as I can read in any scripture
> handed down by God himself or Jesus the Son, not one of them tells us
> whom we can or cannot have sex with. That was men, baby. We holier
> than thou shits who try to tell other people how to think, or sit in
> judgement, or force folks to behave in certain ways.
>
> Jesus loved Hester though she was a prostitute and slept with men and
> women, and hated holy men. God loved us all, as long as we loved him.
> That was all I read. DOn't know about you bible-beaters, but Jesus
> said (according to Matt's scripture):
>
> For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged , and with
> the measure you use, it will be measured to you . Why do you look at
> the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to
> the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me
> take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank
> in your own eye ? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own
> eye...
>
>
> Read above - "interpret" his word and you take His name in vain. You
> misuse his intention. YOU think homosexuality a sin? You bought into
> Roman bible rewrites (Constantine was disgusted by the behaviour of
> some of the Caesars.) YOU think? What right have YOU to think? To
> Judge? Your own God tells you this is one of the 10 worst sins. Do you
> guess who's gay? Do you think about it? Gossip with your friends? You
> shall not bear false witness!
>
> Bible thumpers, bah. You make me tired. Always waving scripture around
> like it's some sort of prize or justification for whatever you choose
> to think. You hypocrite, first take the plank from your own eye.
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality unknown 8 Jan 07 11:47AM |
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> she can think anything she wants. that's what a mind is for.
That's exactly my problem, MB. She clearly doesn't have an issue with gay people but she's spouting bible-based rhetoric without a) following the precepts of the religion she claims to follow, and b) understanding why she feels what she does.
I'm not attacking her. I'm asking people to look at what they believe and why, instead of mouthing harmful views given to them by someone else. Their agenda isn't so harmless.
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality unknown 8 Jan 07 11:58AM |
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This is turning out not to be a debate, but a defending of our (and others) views.
I agree with the unknown...explain why you believe what you do instead of just saying, "because the Bible tells me so". Help us understand why you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God instead of just telling us it is. What brings you to the 'faith' of this acknowledgement?
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality mikebauer 8 Jan 07 12:23PM |
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she's not really spouting anything, though. it's just like "all things considered". i'm too old to get whipped into a liberal frenzy. my thought comes out in my poetry: it's all very postitive about the real reality of love. then too, "little normal queer boy" is supposed to be an exuberant celebration of being a L.N. Q-B... over this, and as a slam, the thing i've got here now: "my friend arty" is a slam at gay neanderthals.
probably my poem "harvard boys" summed my experience in the life best, and that wasn't commented on at all here, nor, really are any of my poems commented on as gay politic here -- and i wonder where you've been when the actual subject of this poetry critical site has been the play? poetry?
>
> > she can think anything she wants. that's what a mind is for.
>
> That's exactly my problem, MB. She clearly doesn't have an issue
> with gay people but she's spouting bible-based rhetoric without a)
> following the precepts of the religion she claims to follow, and b)
> understanding why she feels what she does.
>
> I'm not attacking her. I'm asking people to look at what they
> believe and why, instead of mouthing harmful views given to them by
> someone else. Their agenda isn't so harmless.
>
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality unknown 8 Jan 07 12:55PM |
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I think that you should explain why God hates the act of homosexuality. He created all things with a purpose and plan. For His creation to decide on its own that fitting two parts together in a purposeless way is defiance of the worst kind.
Of course, this could be said for lying, cheating, fornication of all kinds, hating your neighbor, etc. All of us have sinned and come short of what we were made for, homosexuals are not singled out as the big Sinners! It's the act that God hates, not the actor. He is gracious enough to check our hearts, not only our bodies, when He judges. I know many gay people (and liars and fornicators!) who act more Christ-like than the zealots who hunt them down and say they are going to Hell.
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re: The Bible and Homosexuality mikebauer 8 Jan 07 1:11PM |
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this is just straight-bashing crap. you don't know anyone except in the way you want to know them... this is just noise. you say "hell" like it was a real thing, and you state "god" like there was a god that would agree with you if had his cell number: that's the basic problem of the protestant revolution, and the weakness in any religious and anti-religious argument: belief is about feeling. she doesn't feel bad about us, me, being homo. she just says it's something that's part of doctrine and she's open to discussion. an argument to her, then, would be the existential argument: gays don't burst into flames randomly on the street... no more than morons float upward from their autos in "rapture". give me a break... she's just trying to live and let live. let her.
> I think that you should explain why God hates the act of
> homosexuality. He created all things with a purpose and plan. For
> His creation to decide on its own that fitting two parts together in a
> purposeless way is defiance of the worst kind.
>
> Of course, this could be said for lying, cheating, fornication of all
> kinds, hating your neighbor, etc. All of us have sinned and come
> short of what we were made for, homosexuals are not singled out as the
> big Sinners! It's the act that God hates, not the actor. He is
> gracious enough to check our hearts, not only our bodies, when He
> judges. I know many gay people (and liars and fornicators!) who act
> more Christ-like than the zealots who hunt them down and say they are
> going to Hell.
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