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re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  19 Jan 07 7:33PM Post Reply

> They discovered that revelations wasn't even penned by the apostle,
> John.  The author was hundreds of years after Jesus' time, and the
> document was referring to the evils of Nero and the Roman Empire.

Who is "they."
I can easily say myself, and I will, that is believed that crazed Zealot John who wrote the Gospel according to John was the same who wrote Revelations. He was Kabalah, but eventually even kicked out of that. And, so you know, he did live quite a number of years after Jesus' death. In fact, practically none of the books found in the Bible were written during the actual times of Jesus.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  19 Jan 07 10:38PM Post Reply

> > They discovered that revelations wasn't even penned by the apostle,
> > John.  The author was hundreds of years after Jesus' time, and the
> > document was referring to the evils of Nero and the Roman Empire.
>
> Who is "they."
> I can easily say myself, and I will, that is believed that crazed
> Zealot John who wrote the Gospel according to John was the same who
> wrote Revelations. He was Kabalah, but eventually even kicked out of
> that. And, so you know, he did live quite a number of years after
> Jesus' death. In fact, practically none of the books found in the
> Bible were written during the actual times of Jesus.

Both of the above statements are just plan untruths, hopefully the second statement was said as a joke. It is funny how many experts come out and talk about the bible during discussions such as this, yet one that knows the bible can tell they have read very little of it, or studied very little on the subject.

Do yourselves a favor and sit down and read the bible, I would suggest starting with John, then the rest of the gospels, Acts, then the rest of the New Testament, except leave Revelation after having read much of the Old Testament. I would read Genesis and Exodus as the first and second book of the Old Testament but skip the next few books of the bible to be read towards the end of your study. I would read Psalms and Proverbs after Exodus.

Too many people say to themselves that they will read the entire bible and think it is to be read from start to finish in order. This can be done but the books Leviticus and Numbers stops many readers in their tracks because they seem rather boring. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are anything but boring and Acts is very exciting. All the books after Acts are also very interesting.

Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelations I would read last because they have to do with some things that have not yet happened. Psalms of course is the book of songs, and really some beautiful poetry as well as the book Song of Solomon. Who could be a better poet than the creator of all poets?

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  19 Jan 07 11:03PM Post Reply

> that's merely one religion's point of view. maybe all we can trust
> is that we will all be dealt with in life and death according to what
> we believe. following my reasoning, if you believe that you have been
> born into this world sinless you have been; if you believe
> homosexuality isn't a sin, then it isn't; if you believe sinners go
> to hell and you're a sinner, then to hell you will go, likewise for
> good deeds and heaven; and if you believe in nothing, then nothing
> will happen to you.

This is exactly the teaching of the world; this is what Satan wants the world to believe. If all religions were only created by man then this would be true. In other words if all religions are false then you might as well believe in anyone one of them and lead life thus. However, one of the worlds religions, and only one may be correct, or none. Christ himself did not like religion; he did not like the pious hypocrite that received rewards in this world for appearing to be better than others. I’m a Christian and as a Christian I believe that eternal life can be gained only through Christ, there is no other way because Jesus said so. All other religions are then false.

The difference between other religions and Christianity, besides being false, is that they are made by men, but God came in person as Christ to redeem the world. God actually did visit the world to save mankind. It is not a fairytale, it is real. Before you say that I am intolerant of others, or Christianity is, let me say that Christ would be the first to turn the other cheek. Christians are not to convert others by any other means than love, period. Love people as Christ has loved us. Christians are, or should be if they follow Christ’s teachings, very tolerant of others because there is always hope that others will also know the savior before the end of their lives.  

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  mikebauer  19 Jan 07 11:04PM Post Reply

this is pretty well understood to be the case, you know. they were just rush limbaughs writing about whatever. and nobody wrote about jesus while he was around. why? they didn't know who he was till he rose from the dead. nobody wrote biographys of ordinary people in those days... biography was strictly a high class thing.

there are no homosexuals and there are no more jesus's: gay people and christians are the last people on earth worrying about this pseudoproblem of theology. sissy boys are sissy, however, and homophobes and straightophobes are pretty much bedwetters.


> > > They discovered that revelations wasn't even penned by the
> apostle,
> > > John.  The author was hundreds of years after Jesus' time, and
> the
> > > document was referring to the evils of Nero and the Roman Empire.
> >
> > Who is "they."
> > I can easily say myself, and I will, that is believed that crazed
> > Zealot John who wrote the Gospel according to John was the same who
> > wrote Revelations. He was Kabalah, but eventually even kicked out of
> > that. And, so you know, he did live quite a number of years after
> > Jesus' death. In fact, practically none of the books found in the
> > Bible were written during the actual times of Jesus.
>
> Both of the above statements are just plan untruths, hopefully the
> second statement was said as a joke. It is funny how many experts come
> out and talk about the bible during discussions such as this, yet one
> that knows the bible can tell they have read very little of it, or
> studied very little on the subject.
>
> Do yourselves a favor and sit down and read the bible, I would suggest
> starting with John, then the rest of the gospels, Acts, then the rest
> of the New Testament, except leave Revelation after having read much
> of the Old Testament. I would read Genesis and Exodus as the first and
> second book of the Old Testament but skip the next few books of the
> bible to be read towards the end of your study. I would read Psalms
> and Proverbs after Exodus.
>
> Too many people say to themselves that they will read the entire bible
> and think it is to be read from start to finish in order. This can be
> done but the books Leviticus and Numbers stops many readers in their
> tracks because they seem rather boring. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John
> are anything but boring and Acts is very exciting. All the books after
> Acts are also very interesting.
>
> Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelations I would read last because they have to
> do with some things that have not yet happened. Psalms of course is
> the book of songs, and really some beautiful poetry as well as the
> book Song of Solomon. Who could be a better poet than the creator of
> all poets?

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  19 Jan 07 11:18PM Post Reply

As a Christian I would have to agree that I would not have started a thread called The Bible and Homosexuality, it is a moot point and one sin among many. If I were to start a thread like this I probably would title it The Bible and Sin, The Bible and Love, The Bible and Living the Good Life...something like that. Christ himself told the people accusing the woman of adultery who would cast the first stone. He was saying if you have not sinned then you can accuse her. He then, I believe, wrote each persons last sin in the sand for each to see, then they all walked away. The point of Christianity is not sin. Sin only shows us the need for someone to save us from our sins. The point is that we can be lifted up above all sins.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  mikebauer  20 Jan 07 12:10AM Post Reply

what has the bible got to do with anything in a writing forum except as literature anyway? the bible isn't considered special by everyone. this has to be a special christian only discussion, i think. and then the obvious comes up: what theological flavor of christianity is going to be the norm for the dialog? then you get into schizm and religion war.

> As a Christian I would have to agree that I would not have started a
> thread called The Bible and Homosexuality, it is a moot point and one
> sin among many. If I were to start a thread like this I probably would
> title it The Bible and Sin, The Bible and Love, The Bible and Living
> the Good Life...something like that. Christ himself told the people
> accusing the woman of adultery who would cast the first stone. He was
> saying if you have not sinned then you can accuse her. He then, I
> believe, wrote each persons last sin in the sand for each to see, then
> they all walked away. The point of Christianity is not sin. Sin only
> shows us the need for someone to save us from our sins. The point is
> that we can be lifted up above all sins.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  nightengale  20 Jan 07 12:41AM Post Reply

I started this thread because someone asked me about what the Bible said about Homosexuality. It was simply that- proving that the bible did speak about homosexuals. Somewhere along the line, the question changed to if being gay is wrong or not. That's just the way it went. It really is a pointless thread- I just brought it up to answer some questios and to hear all perspectives.

I didn't want everything to go this far really.

to answer someone else's question, yes I pretty much take the bible literally. You have to be careful when reading the bible and hearing others, such as ministers, preach about it. You can take it out of context to support something completely different than what was meant to support orginally.

So am I literalist? I don't know...I suppose. Is that a bad thing?

I will be the first to admit that I am still learning and I don't know all the answers. When one of you bring up something, I look into it and research it. Not only to do I go back to the bible and look at the greek, hebrew and aramic meaning, I also put it into perspective and think of what in history was occuring. I know many of the theories and arguments against and for certain subjects pertaining to biblical principles. Trust me, I consider what you say very seriously.

I'm just a teenager trying to find what I believe. You were all there once.

julia

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  20 Jan 07 1:02AM Post Reply

> I started this thread because someone asked me about what the Bible
> said about Homosexuality. It was simply that- proving that the bible
> did speak about homosexuals. Somewhere along the line, the question
> changed to if being gay is wrong or not. That's just the way it went.
> It really is a pointless thread- I just brought it up to answer some
> questios and to hear all perspectives.
>
> I didn't want everything to go this far really.
>
> to answer someone else's question, yes I pretty much take the bible
> literally. You have to be careful when reading the bible and hearing
> others, such as ministers, preach about it. You can take it out of
> context to support something completely different than what was meant
> to support orginally.
>
> So am I literalist? I don't know...I suppose. Is that a bad thing?
>
> I will be the first to admit that I am still learning and I don't
> know all the answers. When one of you bring up something, I look into
> it and research it. Not only to do I go back to the bible and look at
> the greek, hebrew and aramic meaning, I also put it into perspective
> and think of what in history was occuring. I know many of the theories
> and arguments against and for certain subjects pertaining to biblical
> principles. Trust me, I consider what you say very seriously.
>
> I'm just a teenager trying to find what I believe. You were all there
> once.
>
> julia

You don't have to justify why you created this thread, I was not directing the above comment about starting the thread towards you. As you say these threads do seem to go too far much of the time. I believe you are correct about the context of what you are reading in the bible as far as being a literal interpretation or not. Obviously there will not be a flaming sword coming out of Christ's mouth but on the other hand I would not trivialize any of the things that Christ did in his three year ministry. Do I believe that he raised Lazarus from the dead, of course, the context is the reality of someone dying, of the grief of family, friends, and Jesus. It is real and literal. I believe someday Christ will return and instead of saying:

John 11:43  And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

He will say Come forth and all will arise on that day.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  mikebauer  20 Jan 07 1:19AM Post Reply

well, i'm queer and i'm tired of this pseudo-intellectual and sanctimonious talk about a non-subject, from non-scholars. from now on, religion is a sin and y'all can just live in it and i don't care a hang.

> > I started this thread because someone asked me about what the Bible
> > said about Homosexuality. It was simply that- proving that the bible
> > did speak about homosexuals. Somewhere along the line, the question
> > changed to if being gay is wrong or not. That's just the way it
> went.
> > It really is a pointless thread- I just brought it up to answer some
> > questios and to hear all perspectives.
> >
> > I didn't want everything to go this far really.
> >
> > to answer someone else's question, yes I pretty much take the bible
> > literally. You have to be careful when reading the bible and hearing
> > others, such as ministers, preach about it. You can take it out of
> > context to support something completely different than what was
> meant
> > to support orginally.
> >
> > So am I literalist? I don't know...I suppose. Is that a bad thing?
> >
> > I will be the first to admit that I am still learning and I don't
> > know all the answers. When one of you bring up something, I look
> into
> > it and research it. Not only to do I go back to the bible and look
> at
> > the greek, hebrew and aramic meaning, I also put it into perspective
> > and think of what in history was occuring. I know many of the
> theories
> > and arguments against and for certain subjects pertaining to
> biblical
> > principles. Trust me, I consider what you say very seriously.
> >
> > I'm just a teenager trying to find what I believe. You were all
> there
> > once.
> >
> > julia
>
> You don't have to justify why you created this thread, I was not
> directing the above comment about starting the thread towards you. As
> you say these threads do seem to go too far much of the time. I
> believe you are correct about the context of what you are reading in
> the bible as far as being a literal interpretation or not. Obviously
> there will not be a flaming sword coming out of Christ's mouth but on
> the other hand I would not trivialize any of the things that Christ
> did in his three year ministry. Do I believe that he raised Lazarus
> from the dead, of course, the context is the reality of someone dying,
> of the grief of family, friends, and Jesus. It is real and literal. I
> believe someday Christ will return and instead of saying:
>
> John 11:43  And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,
> Lazarus, come forth.
>
> He will say Come forth and all will arise on that day.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  nightengale  20 Jan 07 1:28AM Post Reply

unknown- I agree with you

mike- ya, I'm with you (well, I'm not queer)- I'm tired of this discussion.

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