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re: The Bible and Homosexuality  sonadora  18 Jan 07 8:32PM Post Reply

Sry I didn't re-read all the last posts. What is tithing???

And also. So after being involved in and reading this thread I decided why not just go read some of this bible again. So I did. I have to tell you this who scenario is pretty damn confusing. So yaya the bible does blatantly state "homosexuality is an abomination" or whatever. But then I skipped to the New Testament, where Jesus hangs out, and decided to see what he had to say. I just randomly opened to a page and there was Jesus and his apostles. Now they had just harvested some grain on the sabbath, and these people were like "Hey! That's a sin your harvesting on the sabbath!!" and then Jesus made some excuse about how it was a righteous thing to feed people, blah blah blah I'm Jesus. Then he started healing people on the sabbath and people were like "hey, Jesus Christ! You're sinning again!!!" to which Jesu responded with some more " Blah blah I am the son of God I can do what I want and it isnt a sin cus I'm doing good stuff so eff you". Anyway I'm not sure if that really has a point but it affected me cus i'm thinking, here we are talking about sinners, and here Jesus is sinning, but getting away with it, basically beacause he's jesus and can turn the situation into a parable. Idk what book this was but it was when he starts talking about the trees and their fruit. Anyway what I really want to get to is that at some point Jesus stated that go loves "even the most wicked". So, homosexuality may be an abomination, but god Loves everyone, even the wicked homos. So like that big book just kind of contradicted itself, or pulled a jesus and found a loophole around some rules.

The other part that struck me is that during the "homos are bad" bit in the Old Testament, God was talking to Moses, directing the Israelites how to live in Cannan. He said some other things that were pretty shocking and intense about the deformed, and mixed races, and women, and who you should have sex with. So thinking about it, really these were just strict rules on how to start out, because If these are his people (the israelites) living in his new land (canaan) he probably wanted to make sure they were doing it right. But by the time Jesus got there, everything was established, so now God could kind of relax and forgive people and stuff. That's how I've come to understand it anyway.

My point is that--Its okay to be Gay in God's eyes. I guess. Plus, its not like Gay people are going around smiting the innocent, eating babies, and slapping old ladies in the face. They are simply loving each other, and how can anyone, especially God and/or Jesus, have contempt for someone who Loves? It can not be right for us to convict these people of loving, especially in the trying times we live in.
So discuss and digest that if you wish. I'd like to see if I can get anymore confused about this whole mess.
Sincerely (& with all due respect)
Sonadora.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  nightengale  18 Jan 07 8:58PM Post Reply

Tithing is giving 10% of the money you make to God. It's to support the church practically- I could give you some references if you want...I probably just confused you more.

Ok. God does love everyone. Jesus hung out with all the sinners and not the religious leaders when he was on earth. But, he hates sin. In other words- loves the sinners but hates the sin. Because God is holy, sinners can't be with him. All humans have sinned. So God made this plan where he sends his son, Jesus, to earth to die for all of our sins. Since Jesus never sinned himself, he broke sins power and now we have a choice- if we accept christ as God and our savior and ask him to forgive our sins, then we can be with God. Through forgiveness, we are made pure again in the sight of God.

ok- about Jesus. He actually didn't sin. The religious leaders were corrupted and they totally distorted the Law. When Jesus came, he broke the Law and made a new one. Even then, he didn't sin....

about homosexuality- in the New Testament it also talks about it being wrong and a sin (look at romans).

crap. this whole explanation is very vague. If you want a more detailed explanation, let me know and I'll give it this weekend.

julia

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  18 Jan 07 9:46PM Post Reply

The bible is a book written by man, whether or not inspired by God.

In its words are the leaked biases of the societies in which it was created.
Christianity has never liked homosexuality, not necessarily because it, the actual act of same-sex relations, is a bad, but becase it was a common practice among the Greeks, Romans and other Gentiles.

As you know, Christianity roots from Judaism. The Jews didn't like the Romans and Greeks not solely because of their pagan beliefs, but because both empires, at a time, conquered, controlled and taxed Israel.

Greece even went so far at a time to try to hellenize Israel.

So, denouncing homosexuality, in effect, denounces the Romans and Greeks, because the Greeks and Romans were bad people, conquerors, "dirty." This is was man's thought, and any historian will agree with me.

As we have looked at the bible with a new eye towards the role a women, so should with we homosexuals. We should realize that, at the time, homosexuality was truly an abomination, but by todays standards it is not. Reading and understanding the bible so that it applies to our modern life is like critically analyzing any historical document. One must keep in regard the times in which it was created and understand that we no longer live in those same times.



Ultimately, the very beginning words of the bible should rule out the possibility that God does not like homosexuals or sees it as a sin. In the beginning it says, and I am paraphrasing, "God created everything in his image: and everything in his image was seen as good."

God creates us all, the way he wills it, and everything he creates is good. How thing can homosexuality -- homosexuals -- be a sin or abomination in God's eyes. This is a contradiction of terms. God loves us all for who we are, for what we are.


Anonymous

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  18 Jan 07 10:07PM Post Reply

Sin.

The translation of 'sin' is: to miss

The meaning being, 'to miss the mark'

Something we ALL do.  Everyday.

No matter gay, straight, young, old, christian, buddhist, islamic, hindu or agnostic.

"Before removing the mote from thy brother's eye, tend to the beam in thine own"  Wonderful line - especially from a socialist, left-wing, liberal carpenter.  :)

I like that nightengale said above, 'homosexuality is wrong and a sin (look at ROMANS).  The name:  Romans.  I doubt that nightengale will ever explore the history of the various 'books' that make up the bible (like so, so many others that never will) because for many individuals, the bible provides a map for living, and thinking, and determining.  Following a guide for 'being' in this world eases the responsibility of self and making choices with awareness and light - "God was working through me" or "Satan had his way with me".  Personalities that adopt wholly the teachings of a church (whichever one) are much the same as individuals who seek out paths in the military, or prison, or some corporations.  Oh, and nightengale?   God loves me, so does his/her world, and Jesus and Buddha and Gandhi and probably Mohammed, if I ever had the chance to ask him.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  nightengale  18 Jan 07 10:08PM Post Reply

Ultimately, the very beginning words of the bible should rule out the possibility that God does not like homosexuals or sees it as a sin. In the beginning it says, and I am paraphrasing, "God created everything in his image: and everything in his image was seen as good."

--- everything was good until sin entered the world- and the bible labels homosexuality as a sin.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  18 Jan 07 10:13PM Post Reply

Nightengale, as anticipated, illustrated my point beautifully.

(Unknown above with comment on 'sin')

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  18 Jan 07 10:19PM Post Reply

> Ultimately, the very beginning words of the bible should rule out the
> possibility that God does not like homosexuals or sees it as a sin. In
> the beginning it says, and I am paraphrasing, "God created everything
> in his image: and everything in his image was seen as good."
>
> --- everything was good until sin entered the world- and the bible
> labels homosexuality as a sin.

Or...God created everything within (in) His image.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  sonadora  18 Jan 07 10:37PM Post Reply

bravo to the unknowns.

Ghandi? Didn't think he was an religious figure. But that comment brings me to the other point of what about the other religions? Hinduism, originally before the British came, had a practice that somewhat included homosexuality, or at least transexuality. No bible there. lack of bible= lack of sin?

And if God hates the sin so much, than why not make it go away? Is it because that's what makes our world, his world, so beautiful? The great mixes of "good" and "evil"? The diversity? Hmm maybe that doesn't really add on to my point, if I have one.

As for tithing....not that its a bad thing, but It goes to show why the institution of church can not nesecerily be trusted. Its filled with humans! Too mortal to be the divine house.

Anyway, so what you're saying is that if all Gays go "Jesus  I love you you're my savior" Than they're good to go. I actually heard that about a lot of people, like murderers and rapists and frauds and robbers. That when on their death bed they go "Jesus please forgive me" They too are good to go. That has nothing to do with anything either. So mainly: If you're a homosexual, accept jesus into your heart.

sounds quite evangical, but fair enough I suppose.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  nightengale  18 Jan 07 11:32PM Post Reply

umm...none of that is what I said or meant. sigh...i promise you I will explain this sometime. I just can't right now...

I'll say one thing for now. God doesn't take homosexuality or any other sin out of the world because he gives us the CHOICE to do what we want with out lives. We can sin if we want to- we can deny him if we want to as well. He doesn't want to force anyone to believe in him.

re: The Bible and Homosexuality  unknown  18 Jan 07 11:42PM Post Reply

> umm...none of that is what I said or meant. sigh...i promise you I
> will explain this sometime. I just can't right now...
>
> I'll say one thing for now. God doesn't take homosexuality or any
> other sin out of the world because he gives us the CHOICE to do what
> we want with out lives. We can sin if we want to- we can deny him if
> we want to as well. He doesn't want to force anyone to believe in
> him.

Deny HIM.  HE doesn't.  Believe in HIM. He, and Him.  What a load of shit.  It's not a 'him', it's Divine.  It IS.  It is I AM.  Love and light is sexless.  Bigger, far larger, than what you can ever THINK.  Your mind needs to shut the fuck up.  Blasphemy.

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